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cosmicrat
Peace, freedom, equality, tolerance, and justice for all
01.10.2017 (51 days ago)
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Who Exactly Is the Alt-Right?
by cosmicrat ·
1-October-2017, 9:20 pm

Who Exactly Is the Alt-Right? As Told by the Alt-Right

https://extranewsfeed.com/who-exactly-is-the-alt-right-as-told-by-the-alt-right-a6100046781e

Nothing in life is to be feared, it is only to be understood. Now is the time to understand more, so that we may fear less.
 — Marie Curie

https://www.biography.com/news/marie-curie-biography-facts

Understanding our universe is important.  Understanding human beings who think differently is also worth pursuing.  Sometimes that is even more challenging than delving into the mysteries of physics.  Learning that a phenomenon exists is the first step.  Understanding why is the hard part.  That can lead to less fear.  But as in the case of Marie Curie, we may find that what we didn't know, CAN hurt us.

Ideas and attitudes are a bit like scents in the air.  Close to their source, whether a flower garden or a garbage dump, they may be strong, even overwhelming, but they drift outward and can be detected a distance away, fainter perhaps, or mixed with other scents.  Defining the extremes, the source, is useful.  It helps in knowing what more subtle scents are in the air around us.

"Who are the Alt-Right?

In truth, the Alt-Right is not an entity in and of itself. Rather, it exists as a coalition of Nazis, Confederates, White Nationalists, Klansmen, fascists, and even some simply far-right Republicans. Importantly, not all Nazis are Alt-Righters, and not all Alt-Righters are Nazis. That goes for each of the categories in the coalition.

The one factor that defines this coalition is a belief in the “14 Words,” which are essentially a thesis statement for the movement. The words are “We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children.” Taken at face value, the statement is innocent enough. There is no overt reference to violence, or even to racism. These factors only rear their heads in the interpretation of the words."

The article allows the coalition to define itself in its own words.  The author of the article concludes that, as a collection of movements, it is small and not to be feared in and of itself.  The concern, I believe is the extent to which it may pollute the air around it.  One seldom encounters the concentrated version, but quite often hears from what might be called the "alt-right-light".  

-cosmicrat Oct 1 2017

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  •  SecretCorners: 
     

    Here is an example of Marxist ideology from the left; hate speech.  The left pushed to pass laws against hate speech; which means they are wanting to put limits on free speech.   So you telling people what they can not say.  And eventually it will move to what people must say.  It is a page right out of 1984.  The majority of people don't like to hear hateful speech and they will counter hateful speech with their own ideas.  However, violence is not OK.  What if I think your speech is hateful, are you OK with me punching you in the face because I don't like what you are saying?  This is also another area where the left has gone batshit crazy; they want to do the punching for things they don't like but think the other side should not punch back.  It is ludicrous.  No civilised society can be ruled by mob violence.  In a democracy, even a representative democracy; we have to talk, we have to have discourse.  The left has decided that they don't want to talk and usually it is because they really can not defend their positions.

    Yes, we need to work to improve things.  However, we don't make up BS such as women are oppressed.  That is really not about fixing something that is wrong, that is about making up a problem so you can try to enforce control over others.  Gee, doesn't that sound Marxist?  The left go on and on about how women are oppressed in the US when they are not.  Yet, they embrace Islam that oppresses women horribly; that wants to kill all jews, that wants to kill all homosexuals.  That is the truth.  The left pushes their bullshit about Islam is the religion of peace when it is not.  I read a report the other day that the majority of women in Saudi Arabia want to leave the country.  In my opinion they should all just rise up and cut the dicks off of the men oppressing them.  Of course when you brainwash girls from the time they leave the womb that some magical sky daddy is decreeing they be oppressed, decreeing they be mistreated by men, it is hard to get them to do otherwise.

     
     39 days ago 
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  •  SecretCorners: 
     

     
     42 days ago·1 replies1 replies 
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    •  cosmicrat: 
       

      Go ahead and criticize them, if you can find any.  The extreme left are even more rare than serious Nazis.  When was the last time you heard a call for a communist revolution, let alone anyone trying to organize one?

      To the average ignorant Republican, Bernie's "democratic socialism" is extreme left.  And to the average bigot, racial/religious/ethnic equality advocates are  extreme leftists.   Etc.  But that's just relative perspective.

      The real left wing just isn't very exciting any more.  Certainly nothing dangerous, or even risky.  In its various aspects, we're essentially saying, "Let's all treat one another nicely."  

      True, we've accomplished a lot over the years, and have much to be proud of.  And we still have a long way to go, with a serious opposition to overcome.  Thanks for trying to make us sound dangerous.  It might have gotten more people excited and dedicated.  But it's not about cheap thrills; it's persistence and patience that brings change.

       
       41 days ago·1 replies1 replies 
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      •  SecretCorners: 
         

        I think trying to enforce a Marxist ideology on the West is pretty bad.  Why does the left embrace an ideology that want to kill all Jews and gays and oppress women?  I think that is pretty bad.  I could go on but I don't think you are willing to listen; after all, you claimed you stood with Antifa so that says it all.

         
         40 days ago·1 replies1 replies 
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        •  cosmicrat: 
           

          You seem totally confused.  "Enforce a Marxist ideology"?  Does that refer to single-payer health insurance?  
          Where did you get the idea that anyone on the left wants to kill or oppress anyone?  Quite the opposite.

          As for Antifa, though I prefer peaceful means of defeating the extreme racists, I will not abandon the good people willing to go further if necessary, It's easy to underestimate the danger of white nationalists and their ilk.  They may be small in number, but they have infected politics here, in France, Germany, parts of Eastern Europe.  Minority parties, perhaps, but the danger they pose is not in appealing to rational, decent people, but in manipulating the ignorant and mindlessly angry.

          But if you want to pretend that all is rosy, and no one needs to be working to make things better, then just go on believing that.  

           
           40 days ago 
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  •  Midianlord: 
     

    A totalitarian is a totalitarian.

    The most dangerous, however, is the one whose ideology starts from a place most decent, thinking humans can agree with, or at least not dismiss out of hand. Ultimately, though, they're all the bloody same.

    Dig it, baby:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory

     
     50 days ago·2 replies2 replies 
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    •  cosmicrat: 
       

      I ignored that statement when I first saw it, but then I decided it needs to be said that it is one of the most absurdly ridiculous things I've ever read.  

      I suppose, if you have a special definition of "decent, thinking humans", then you could twist that  to be true, but nobody I would define in that way has any inclination toward totalitarianism.

      The implication that all values are the same, no one can make anything better, so let's pretend nothing is wrong...is just not how the good, decent people I know look at things.

       
       44 days ago·2 replies2 replies 
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      •  SecretCorners: 
         

        The left and the right are very close in their ideology,  The left just lies a lot to try and cover it up.  Both are for wars; both sides voted to give Trump the authority to send troops anywhere.  The left and the right both are owned by Wall Street.  I have often stated in the past that the Democrats and Republicans are just opposite sides of the same coin.  @CosmicRat; you do know that the Democrats work WITH the Republicans to keep any third party out of the government?

         
         39 days ago 
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      •  Midianlord: 
         

        As I ignored this, when I first saw it. As I try to ignore most of your lefty-cult tripe.

        Actually, I'll continue to do so --I think I've not seen anyone so self-servingly twist a statement as I have with this, at least not here.

        "I suppose, if you have a special definition of "decent, thinking humans"

        I don't, actually. A cursory look at my stuff will conclusively prove this.

        "The implication that all values are the same, no one can make anything better, so let's pretend nothing is wrong."

        I never said or implied that. In fact, it can be said that I said the exact opposite, even if at one remove. (Do Americans not know how to reason inductively, or something?)

        That was a brilliantly-played strawman, though --better than usual for your ilk. That's not to say that it wasn't blatantly obvious, you understand, but still pretty good, within its limits.

        When you're ready to stop insulting people who disagree with you (I'm assuming that "disagree with you" is a descriptor that you apply to anyone even slightly to the right of fucking Stalin, as is typical), then I might explain my views to you (hint: I'm the first-generation son of immigrants who grew up in an actual left-wing totalitarian state, so this is not just abstract words with me. IE, I actually know history on a deeper level than your patriotically correct corporate American textbooks have taught you)--as it is now, though:

        No cookie for you!

        Whilst I got ya, though --read. Learn. Apply.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

         
         40 days ago 
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    •  SecretCorners: 
       

       
       50 days ago 
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  •  SecretCorners: 
     

    I am not worried about the alt-right; they really are not that great in numbers and the majority of the people reject their ideas.  The majority of Americans reject neo-nazis, neo-fascists, white supremacist ideology.

    The real danger is from the alt-left; or the regressive left as some refer to them.  The alt-left is much more subtle in their message and thus more easy to fool.  The alt-left used the universities to help push their agendas and many were unaware.  The Jesuit, ‘Give me the child for his first seven years, and I’ll give you the man' is apt; indoctrination is best done in a slow methodical way.

    Joseph Goebbels stated "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." That maxim is used very successful by the alt-left and I have seen it up to the highest office in the US.  One of the clearest example has been the gender pay gap in which even the president of the United States went before the public and exclaimed that women were paid less men for the same work.

    The problem is that those who have been indoctrinated by the alt-left refused to listen even when you present them with the facts, with the hard data.  You can show them photos of Haitians living in shanty towns and having to shit in plastic buckets and that not one house was built with the relief funds.  You can show them that the money disappeared and that no audit of where the money went has ever been produced by the Clinton Foundation and they will still tell you that the Clintons did not help to steal the funds.  They will still repeat the lies of gender pay gap, police hunting Blacks, of oppression of women, oppression of minorities and will use words such as systemic in front of these expressions.  Yet, if I was to ask the majority to define it they would have no clue.

    No, the real danger to Western Civilisation is not the alt-right; a group that the majority of Americans reject.  The real danger to Western Civilisation is from the alt-left and they have the backing of a major political party.

     
     50 days ago·1 replies1 replies 
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    •  cosmicrat: 
       

      "Alt" is internet shorthand for "alternative".  The white nationalists used it to distinguish themselves from the regular corporate pro-capitalist types who are not usually overtly racist (though they do exploit prejudices to divide likely opponents).  The alt-right are not necessarily more extremely right-wing, they just have a different primary focus.

      You keep referring to an "alt-left", though I haven't heard anyone claim that term for themselves.  If there's an alternative left, then there is a regular left.  In what way are you differentiating the two?

      There is, and long has been, a wide range of what is considered leftist views, from believing the need for a completely socialist economic system, to moderate proposals to humanize capitalism to do less harm to the workers and the disadvantaged.  The number who think that change can or should be done by forceful revolution is fewer than in the past.  There is still a variety of thought about what the acceptable pace of progress should be.  There is a general agreement that opportunity and justice should be equal regardless of people's identifiable differences, and in favor of the maximum amount of freedom that does not harm others or society as a whole.
       

      Those who fundamentally disagree with the general philosophy of the left often call the changes we work for "dangerous" or undesirable.  That's to be expected, and it's useful to know their positions.  Increasingly, though, instead of straightforward debate, their strategy is to claim that the problem we are trying to solve simply doesn't exist.  It's a flat out lie, of course, but it is well proven that such lies are accepted by a significant number, especially when it is what they want to believe.

      If there is such a thing as "alt-left", I would think it is those whose ideology is so narrow that they refuse to cooperate with the rest of the leftists who are presumably pursuing the same goals.  They divide and weaken us, so that neither they nor we can accomplish much.

      I wouldn't call these leftists at all.  They're more like nihilists, creating chaos and obstruction, hopeless of any change for the better.

       
       48 days ago 
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Who Exactly Is the Alt-Right?